LB - It's been 8 years since your autogenously pulsed, abnormal glow discharge technology first became public. I know there's a great deal of curiosity out there. What has happened since to the Labofex technology - why has it not yet been commercialized?

PC - In the first three years after filing the three US patent applications, we made a concerted effort to interest 320 of the world's largest multinationals in its development. It was an attempt to commercialize the technology by targeting those who had the most to gain or the most to lose from its introduction and also had at their disposal the most efficient means to implement the technology. But they were, without exception, totally uninterested. Then we moved on to the private investor game - the promoter and venture capital circuit. But here the risk was perceived as being too great - and even though we were asking only US$10M for the PAGD technology, it was considered either too much for a startup or too trifling a matter for a quick in-and-out speculative venture. We were not, of course, one bit interested in dealing with carpet-baggers, and we remember only too well what happened to Gray's engine - the classical wrap. The simple answer to your question is that, to the best of our understanding, no one with capital, whether institutional or not, is minimally interested in seeing it come to fruition.

AC - That's not to say that speculators haven't repeatedly dreamt of having a crack at it.

LB - But for years you were negotiating with some very large companies - what happened there?

AC - It's a long story. We never encountered any real desire to get to the bottom of what the PAGD was all about, to understand it, to verify it, let alone provide the capital so that we could run with the development. The only reason why the engineers at Ontario Hydro went through the motions of testing our system at all was because the OH chairman became personally involved - following our letter to him. They dragged their feet - always wanting more and more corroboration and proving at each step that they understood nothing about the physics involved. Not one test was negative, and we have already told the rest of the story elsewhere - how, after two years of this rigmarole, they sent us a one-liner fax promising investment if we did one more set of tests with an analyzer which they were unable to provide us with and unwilling to help us acquire. One day, if we have time and patience, we may publish the whole story.

PC - IAI was perhaps the one company that gave us the highest consideration - but there, too, shortsightedness prevailed after another three years of negotiations.

AC - After five years of this, with other companies, like GM, Alcoa, Alcan, Duracell, etc, we found ourselves in the circuit of the alternative energies and cold fusion where, aside from a very few serious workers - people like Edmund Storms or Evan Ragland - mysticism and escroquerie abound. There, specific lobbies associated with certain american churches and brands of mysticism monopolize the field and prop it up.

PC - And they are very devious, these people - they send their emissaries, one after the other, as if you were so stupid you could not see it. One of these moronic emissaries even made us a proposal that was partly based upon the notion that there should be PAGD-propelled missiles in a star-wars scenario. Next, he walked out of a dinner meeting protesting he had two or three other inventors in his pocket that cost him less than 50K a year, and all with the promise of 'free-energy'. Of course, he's gone nowhere.

AC - Then, once you refuse to play their game, you find that they drop the free subscriptions, the free ads, the positive mentions and even go as far as demoting your own technology on their websites by making arbitrary classification rankings of the status of alternative power technologies based solely on their own financial interests and not on the validity of the science at stake.

PC - These were the same people that could not stop declaring the autogenous PAGD reactor to be either a Moray valve, or a ZPE diode, or a cold fusion reactor.

AC - Yes, they're very practiced at free association - but completely unable to read or make distinctions.

PC - The best part is that one of these websites managed to rank the original OR motor technology, which we ourselves have rediscovered and improved at the ABRI (see below), but for which there is no concrete record remaining as to how it actually functioned, as being at an even greater stage of development than our own patented Labofex/PAGD technology! That should give you the breadth of the misinformation planted in this field. Some is carefully crafted, and the rest is a direct expression of the malignant character structure of most scientists, including those in the alternative venues. The malignancy is protected by an impenetrable cloak of mysticism, and everything is thrown in with everything else, New Age, Mormonism, Orgone energy, Cold Fusion, Searl discs, Children of the Sun, you name it - there's a cult, a last ditch church and a cottage industry. No wonder that 'Fromages' with their 'Truths' and Theories of Everything and Nothing find the ground so ripe. Frenetic marketing and incessant noise. Entirely filled with blackholes.

AC - Yes, it's all about the same endlessly repackaged recipe discovered decades back by the born-again preachers. Particularly in the early years, we were approached by all sorts of religious and ideological groups - Catholics of the Virgin's Bleeding Heart, Zionists from the Negev, White Supremacy survivalists, envoys of Synarchy, a procession of mentally debile and unstable people looking for a fuse. All offering dollars and a place in heaven or history - which really boils down to the same thing in their minds. And curiously enough, Labofex has never once been approached by any 'green' group or organization - despite the numerous openings made to them. In fact, they refused to give any coverage to our media release in 1996, and again at the Rio Conference. In the end, the green projects seems more concerned with producing things like biologically degradable golf tees than with exploring actual and practical alternatives to combustion fuels.

LB - You felt that you were being accosted by both sides, in and out, in a pincer movement. It is difficult at times to know where stupidity begins and malevolence ends. Has your posture harmed you in this respect?

PC - Indeed, people often think that the enemy are the Parks and Zimmermans, the enemy from without, only to forget that the enemy is here at home, the enemy from within, in the organized lobbies that act as marketeers of speculative ventures, in the venues that so often pose as having the interest of the world at heart - publication venues, conference organizers - in the greed that destroys even the most promising of friendships. It's no secret that alternative organizations are all too frequently filled with debile, mentally deranged people. That is the sordid reason why alternative science seldom disturbs established science. It's a game of shoddy science, of greed and knives in the back.

AC - What's more, these lobbies are often religious and political corporate bodies, effective or candidate technobureaucracies, some of which share a slice of the intelligence market itself. But stupidity is even more complicated than you put it - since I think that you cannot be malevolent without being stupid, and that stupidity itself is malevolent - a mal volere, a will to nothingness that is quite satisfied with slow burning fascisms. There are fanatics on both sides, and they often collaborate, wittingly or unwittingly, like birds of a feather. Together, they constitute the greatest impediment to any open airing of ideas - the infernal dance of their positions and anti-positions only serves to generate confusion, delusion and disinterest in what are very serious matters affecting all life on this planet and our knowledge of nature.

PC - Yes, yes, you see, together, these enemies and false friends of knowledge generate a deafening noise where good or brilliant work becomes equalized to mediocrity and mediocrity is exalted. It 's all about assimilation, about vagueness - Zimmerman confuses the pulsed abnormal glow discharge with cold fusion cells, even imagines we invented the term abnormal glow discharge just to rile him up; but that's just as stupid as the persistence of others to reduce the PAGD reactor to a Vacor tube or a Moray valve. This dance of the foes and false friends is a form of goose stepping. Some years back I found out that a certain prominent fellow was for four months advertising my name as key speaker at a conference that he organized - supposedly hosted by the US government - without so much as having invited me. Then, in the process of straightening out this mess, I came to discover that the fellow was trapping us into a stacked test at the State Department where Zimmerman and Park would be the appointed peers and judges - and by the way, this we only discovered afterwards, for he always claimed to me rather innocently that he was powerless to select any of the 'judges'. If it were his show, why was he so impotent to determine anything - even an equal representation of views? So, I ask you - is he a fool or? Then there is the case of his sidekick - who has not only caused untold harm with his contention that perpetual motion is a matter of religious faith, but once phoned me posing as a representative of some wealthy american catholic cult of the Virgin's Bleeding Heart or other, on a millennium-doomsday mission that called for Labofex to equip the private residences of the cultists with XS NRG power plants before the year 2000. These people are like typhoid Marys - whatever they touch turns to rot. They either have a dire need to believe or else they are impostors. I remember, years back, when Moore stupidly fell into a similar - if more ominous - caper, with the result that the serious, lifelong work of Stanton Friedman was suddenly hijacked and transformed into a mere pillar for the hysterical fad of the abductees. Power is rather complex and works with many tentacles, most of its designs being carried out by unconscious carriers of the contagion. To think that there is anything self-correcting about power mechanisms is the ultimate in delusion.

AC - ...not to mention the fact that these contagious epidemics are often seeded by those who think they can take advantage of them.

LB - I understand that your lab at Labofex very nearly suffered a break-in during this period. Did you ever get to the bottom of this?

PC - Well, it is a difficult bit - we never managed to secure absolute proof, but the circumstances, and the timing suggest that, when our negotiations with an Australian Co. fronting for the Republic of China broke down on very basic questions of legal protocol, the Chinese resorted to an attempt at breaking into our laboratory. And even though we had a signed NDA stamped with all sorts of official seals, the Republic of China, the Embassy in Ottawa, the Consulate in Toronto and the Chamber of Commerce in Beijing all refused to confirm the existence of the company, let alone of the officers. This while we were receiving assurances from Australia that proper accreditation would be forthcoming from the Republic of China. Less than two weeks after we put our foot down on this process, the break-in occurred, carried out by an Asian gang operating well outside their urban area. Fortunately I was working in the lab at the time - finishing our theory of the electric and nonelectric interactions of the electroscope - and was able to abort it. Suffice it to say it was the only attempted break-in we have ever experienced. Unfortunately, our current publishing effort will likely draw in even more cuckoos. The good thing is that, despite all the security we had installed since, the company will soon be dissolved and our laboratory is currently being relocated.

LB - But there were people out there who freely gave you support -

PC - Yes, I presume you are referring to those who, in a sense, are public figures in this field. Most notably, we received unconditional support from our friend and teacher, Harold Aspden. He spared no effort to push our case forward. Likewise, Rui Silva, our lifelong friend who did everything he could for us for as long as his health permitted, and even after... In a very real sense, this site is dedicated to his memory. Another dear friend who has given us support and, everywhere he went, searched for investment high and low, was Eugene Mallove. And still another impeccable friend, Uri Soudak, who was second in line at IAI, and since leaving it has never ceased encouraging us nor spared his time or money in looking for possible financing. More recently, another good friend of ours, Jack Ajzenberg, spent over a year trying to find venture or private capital for our project. In one's life, a few excellent people more than make up for the sea of rotten apples. But a few excellent people cannot change, by themselves, this massive machinery of lies, graft and corruption - they cannot turn the tables on the stupidity and malevolence that reigns in every corner of this globe.

LB - Did development at Labofex then come to a halt, given that you never succeeded in finding a sponsor?

AC - After six or seven years of this madness, we knew that there was simply no way we could proceed in this manner. The pressure was enormous, we did not succeed in finding financing for our world patenting effort, despite glowing exams in Munich. One potential corporate sponsor even went as far as telling us 'they' would still be around when our patents expire. They were in no hurry. Our failure at obtaining comprehensive protection opened the doors for others, particularly in Russia and Hungary, to go ahead and carry on with their own development of the PAGD technology. Well, with the laboratory facilities we have we couldn't push the technology much further. However, we still managed to develop new reactor designs, one of which completely controlled the problem of metal deposition - one of the engineering targets of our proposed R&D program. Reactor design has also reached the 1 kW average output. We had to do all this by ourselves - the financing, the building of the reactors, the metal, the glasswork, the circuitry, the testing, the engineering work, and so on.

PC - Then we managed to corroborate the converter results with a DAQ system and demonstrated the feasibility of closing the circuit loop with our ping-pong experiments. Few seem to understand this, but it is not chemically possible to charge a battery while it is being discharged; moreover, the cathode voltage drop never permitted the input and output battery packs to have identical potentials. Then you come to realize that any system of repeated switching will always entail considerable losses and what is more, much more, will interfere with the breakdown of the vacuum and the circuit tuning of the PAGD. Relays, IGBTs, SCRs, time-actuated mechanical gaps, you name it - they simply take a beating. Engineers invariably have these bright ideas when they know nothing of the medium one is working with. We have lost more time following useless engineering solutions to the mirroring problem, the close-the-loop problem, the single-pack problem and so on, than one could care to hear about. We knew we would be in for a rough time on the converter track.

LB - On the other hand, it appears that recently you have had considerable breakthroughs on the PAGD inverter front. How did that come about?

PC - In the research proposal which Labofex presented in 1996-2000 to interested sponsors, we had in mind to explore the inverter solution. The notion was to eventually provide a flywheel coupling to the motor being driven by the autogenous PAGD inverter. Our dear friend, Harold Aspden, also had in mind resolving this problem by designing a pulsed DC PM motor that was particularly suited to absorb the PAGD signature. But the results we ourselves had previously obtained with the inverter circuit, as shown in our inverter patent, indicated that there was no overunity motor action - for any of the AC motor types we had examined. At the time we had also tested drag-cup spinners, and this was discussed in our inverter patent, but we never realized the importance of tuning these also to the circuit, by employing fractional motors with high rotary inertia and low impedance. True, we had also never run across the right type of drag cup motor, and this was not possible until 2000, when we succeeded in driving a high-speed flywheel with the right type of motor, and reached a condition where we were absorbing the entirety of the transduced autogenous PAGD impulses. This finally enabled us to emulate the converter results employing the inverter circuit and is the present focus of work at Labofex. We have succeeded in driving these flywheel-coupled spinner motors to outputs of near one horsepower, with a fractional input five to ten times lower than the mechanical output of the loaded rotor.

AC - Yes, though quietly, work at Labofex has not stopped, despite all the obstacles and the lack of funding. To this day, the PAGD and IVAD research at Labofex has never received a single cent from government, corporations, or private donors. No donations, no grants, no material support of any kind. Others have received grants from institutions such as the NRC - ostensibly to improve upon our work - unsuccessfully, let it be said! - with the promise of obtaining better patents than ours for the Canadian Government. But we have not. And in a very real sense, we are happy that we have not. For ultimately, this permitted us to pursue research as we saw fit - with complete independence from innumerable hidden agendas and their arbitrary timetables.

LB - Why do you feel that now is the time to release this material - through Akronos publishing - concerning your work at Labofex: has anything changed?

AC - No, nothing really. We cannot justify any longer the research budget of Labofex - not only because of the growing cost, but above all because the next step requires the kind of capital that we do not have. We have been contacted by many people who wanted to do something for us, they wanted to put their economies into some form of a publicly traded company, but we were never in a position to either do that or consider it a viable way. Maybe we should. We have therefore come to the end of the road with regard to Labofex, and we contemplate closing down the company soon. Before we do so, we would like to publicize most of the material that we published internally, as well as publicize our own extensive experience of the phoniness and fakery of the enemies and so-called friends of alternative science, a green earth and so on. Let others know in no uncertain terms what kinds of escroqueries are organized to suck the life out of science, discovery, creation and invention.

LB - Well good luck to you both. I hope that the launching of the AKRONOS site will bring something more interesting to you than what clearly has been an unbelievably dreary experience of attempting to share this work.

PC - We think we have very few illusions left along these lines. We expect that most people who visit the site will be unwilling or unable to read it or make sense of it. But perhaps this is good. A sort of natural selection if you will. This body of work is not really for them anyway. As for something more interesting... we shall see...